My gf is H1B and yet I struggle to imagine ending it. Your arguments are compelling and maybe I’d be the rich partner in the situation if she wasn’t H1B. I’m first gen and yet she’s got the higher paying job 🥹🥲
1. What is the breakdown, by nationality, of the ~134K new graduates?
2. Any data from the BLS/DoL on the net new jobs created from 2016-2023 that require a CS degree? Jobs classified as https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/home.htm, but 2016-22 data. From that link: “Overall employment in computer and information technology occupations is projected to grow much faster than the average for all occupations from 2023 to 2033. About 356,700 openings are projected each year, on average, in these occupations due to employment growth and the need to replace workers who leave the occupations permanently.”
We educate a lot of these people in our institutions. We don't just let anyone in, and it's actually hard to get one. This article doesn't provide any data on who these people are. Companies aren't stupid. They would hire domestic students if they were more capable, but the unfortunate fact is that our k-12 education system isn't that great as a whole, especially in STEM, and we are competing against massive populations in a global economy. There may be some exploitation happening, but it's not as bad as this article makes it sound. We don't want to live in a welfare state where we only get jobs because of artificial boundaries. Increase taxes, and improve our k-12 education system or it will keep getting worse.
Yes they are stupid in that they driven by quarterly returns and neglect the long term implications such as hits on actual productivity and innovation. With regard to your comment about K-12 - nothing could be further from the truth. The Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) that measures 15 year old student in reading, mathematics and science would beg to differ with you. Are there poor school systems in America such as LA Unified, absolutely. But there are also fantastic K-12 schools that produce ample talent.
Sorry, wrong. The H-1B was predicated on a STEM labor shortage that never existed. It was never designed to attract the above average, let alone the best and brightest. If it were, why are applicants selected via lottery and not by a process that evaluates credentials and experience? It ostensibly pulls applicants from across the globe. However, 74% come from one country - India.
The H-1B Visa was designed to replace American white-collar professionals with cheaper and more compliant foreigners. As the Immigration Act of 1990 wound its way through committee, time and again attempts to make the H-1B visa less predatory were stymied.
H-1B requires an offer letter, an above average salary, a professional CV, and often includes many letters of support. It is evaluated to ensure that the person is qualified. It's a lottery after a quota, and it is impossible to compare candidates, hence a lottery. India has a huge number of English-speaking STEM professionals, especially MS and PhD. It makes sense. I don't see the conspiracy here. I can agree with your compliance argument, but not that this is a primary reason for the demand. To be fair, my experience with H-1B is to retain MS and PhD students who are educated here, live here, and don't want to leave, not to hire from abroad to come here. Our hiring committees are hardly considering compliance or even salary as a factor, except the exact opposite that H-1B is quite expensive and tedious to get through and that it's somewhat random.
Now you are outright lying. By law, DOL has only seven business days to review applications. Given the volume, they only have time to check to make sure the forms are properly filled out but NO TIME EXISTS TO VERIFY THE INFORMATION IS TRUTHFUL. I won’t even go into the rampant fraud that surfaces year over year with CVs and H-1B Visa body shops.
Level 1 (Entry) - Wage rates are at the 17th percentile of US wages.
Level 2 (Qualified) - Wage rates are at the 35th percentile of US wages.
Level 3 (Experienced) - Wage rates are at the 50th percentile of US wagess.
Level 4 (Fully Competent) - Wage rates are at the 67th percentile of US wages.
Now here is a shocker, 2/3 of H-1B visa holders come it at levels 1 & 2!! Does that surprise anyone!
Moreover, employers can pretty much do their own surveys to create and prevailing wage and they do. And remember what I said in the previous comment, DOL has only seven business days to review applications. They have no time to evaluate the prevailing wages set by the employer.
Lastly, there is no requirement for an employer to make a good faith effort to find an American citizen or lawulf permanent resident before sending in an LCA. Even H-1B visa dependent companies are exempt from any such requirement if they pay the work over $60K or the worker has a master's degree or higher.
Understand, the H-1B visa program was designed to replace Americans!
UCSF does not have a computer science program. It is a medical graduate school (medicine, nursing, dentistry, pharmacy). This error makes the rest of your assertions suspect.
This reasoning is flawed due to a logical fallacy known as poisoning the well or ad hominem by association.
While it’s true that UCSF is primarily a graduate medical institution and does not offer an undergraduate computer science program, using that factual error to discredit all subsequent assertions is not logically sound.
An incorrect detail does not automatically invalidate every other point made—each claim should be evaluated on its own merits.
It’s more constructive to correct the specific error without dismissing the rest of the argument wholesale.
My gf is H1B and yet I struggle to imagine ending it. Your arguments are compelling and maybe I’d be the rich partner in the situation if she wasn’t H1B. I’m first gen and yet she’s got the higher paying job 🥹🥲
This is just so completely outrageous.
And Trump just approved another wave of Indians on H1B's for next year.
The equation is that wealthy corporations get a fleeting, short term savings on salary while the country gets stuck with these people permanently.
It is an abuse of our immigration system that rewards a culture that overpopulates the planet.
Then fans out to spread all over the world.
Displacing Americans and Europeans with people who have no interest in cultural assimilation.
Couple of questions
1. What is the breakdown, by nationality, of the ~134K new graduates?
2. Any data from the BLS/DoL on the net new jobs created from 2016-2023 that require a CS degree? Jobs classified as https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/home.htm, but 2016-22 data. From that link: “Overall employment in computer and information technology occupations is projected to grow much faster than the average for all occupations from 2023 to 2033. About 356,700 openings are projected each year, on average, in these occupations due to employment growth and the need to replace workers who leave the occupations permanently.”
We educate a lot of these people in our institutions. We don't just let anyone in, and it's actually hard to get one. This article doesn't provide any data on who these people are. Companies aren't stupid. They would hire domestic students if they were more capable, but the unfortunate fact is that our k-12 education system isn't that great as a whole, especially in STEM, and we are competing against massive populations in a global economy. There may be some exploitation happening, but it's not as bad as this article makes it sound. We don't want to live in a welfare state where we only get jobs because of artificial boundaries. Increase taxes, and improve our k-12 education system or it will keep getting worse.
Yes they are stupid in that they driven by quarterly returns and neglect the long term implications such as hits on actual productivity and innovation. With regard to your comment about K-12 - nothing could be further from the truth. The Program for International Student Assessment (PISA) that measures 15 year old student in reading, mathematics and science would beg to differ with you. Are there poor school systems in America such as LA Unified, absolutely. But there are also fantastic K-12 schools that produce ample talent.
We are below average in Math, and slightly above average in science, which is exactly what H1B is for.
Sorry, wrong. The H-1B was predicated on a STEM labor shortage that never existed. It was never designed to attract the above average, let alone the best and brightest. If it were, why are applicants selected via lottery and not by a process that evaluates credentials and experience? It ostensibly pulls applicants from across the globe. However, 74% come from one country - India.
The H-1B Visa was designed to replace American white-collar professionals with cheaper and more compliant foreigners. As the Immigration Act of 1990 wound its way through committee, time and again attempts to make the H-1B visa less predatory were stymied.
H-1B requires an offer letter, an above average salary, a professional CV, and often includes many letters of support. It is evaluated to ensure that the person is qualified. It's a lottery after a quota, and it is impossible to compare candidates, hence a lottery. India has a huge number of English-speaking STEM professionals, especially MS and PhD. It makes sense. I don't see the conspiracy here. I can agree with your compliance argument, but not that this is a primary reason for the demand. To be fair, my experience with H-1B is to retain MS and PhD students who are educated here, live here, and don't want to leave, not to hire from abroad to come here. Our hiring committees are hardly considering compliance or even salary as a factor, except the exact opposite that H-1B is quite expensive and tedious to get through and that it's somewhat random.
Now you are outright lying. By law, DOL has only seven business days to review applications. Given the volume, they only have time to check to make sure the forms are properly filled out but NO TIME EXISTS TO VERIFY THE INFORMATION IS TRUTHFUL. I won’t even go into the rampant fraud that surfaces year over year with CVs and H-1B Visa body shops.
India graduates roughly 1 million engineers a year. Half of them they cannot employ either because the jobs don’t exist and/or they are simply incompetent. So, India encourages them to hit the road and send remittances home. I describe this phenomenon in great detail in a substack from earlier this year. https://open.substack.com/pub/ifspp/p/why-is-the-indian-government-so-eager?r=3nnx0j&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false
Here are the prevailing wage categories:
Level 1 (Entry) - Wage rates are at the 17th percentile of US wages.
Level 2 (Qualified) - Wage rates are at the 35th percentile of US wages.
Level 3 (Experienced) - Wage rates are at the 50th percentile of US wagess.
Level 4 (Fully Competent) - Wage rates are at the 67th percentile of US wages.
Now here is a shocker, 2/3 of H-1B visa holders come it at levels 1 & 2!! Does that surprise anyone!
Moreover, employers can pretty much do their own surveys to create and prevailing wage and they do. And remember what I said in the previous comment, DOL has only seven business days to review applications. They have no time to evaluate the prevailing wages set by the employer.
Lastly, there is no requirement for an employer to make a good faith effort to find an American citizen or lawulf permanent resident before sending in an LCA. Even H-1B visa dependent companies are exempt from any such requirement if they pay the work over $60K or the worker has a master's degree or higher.
Understand, the H-1B visa program was designed to replace Americans!
UCSF does not have a computer science program. It is a medical graduate school (medicine, nursing, dentistry, pharmacy). This error makes the rest of your assertions suspect.
Rubbish. It's a picture from Wikipedia. How about the data? Any comments on our data or is that too deep a dive?
This reasoning is flawed due to a logical fallacy known as poisoning the well or ad hominem by association.
While it’s true that UCSF is primarily a graduate medical institution and does not offer an undergraduate computer science program, using that factual error to discredit all subsequent assertions is not logically sound.
An incorrect detail does not automatically invalidate every other point made—each claim should be evaluated on its own merits.
It’s more constructive to correct the specific error without dismissing the rest of the argument wholesale.